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The thing that drives me nutso about climate change is that many of the necessary changes could be awesome. A society with more leisure time, cleaner air, closer connections to friends and family who live nearer to you, more exercise, more technological innovation, more jobs, more fairness, more nature… most people would benefit from these changes.

@dx the main problem is that this means less/no billionaires...

@lxbrito @dx

"There's the respect that makes calamity of so long life."

The vast majority of us could have a much better world, and a handful of people would be a little less rich than they already are, but that handful has their hands on the levers of power and really, but really don't care about us.

It's Barrier To Climate Action #1.

@dx but not the people who are currently holding the bull if the money and power

@dx fossil fuel lobbies are the enemies.

@dx ,do not think there would be much leisure time, getting on the ground and poking every dandelion out of lawn, running the roads as the airplanes are poisoning the air with chemtrails, more time spent educating one self on what we are really surrounded by, many weeds are edible,one way or another...lol

@dx

A lot of mental buttons might be pushed by framing as "modernization." Because that's what we're talking about, urgencies aside.

Truth in more packages might be helpful.

@dx

I've literally had this conversation many times... it's like talking to a brick wall.

@dx i agree with everything except "energy independence," unless it's about allowing every human being to have access to a generator that runs without anyone else's help.

sad part is, governments seem to only care about that.

@dx I've said it before and I'll say it again, never underestimate the ability of people to vote against their own self interest when promised fewer foreigners. That's all it takes.

@dx covid ended up in the same spot, not only did preventing covid cause covid to happen less, it prevented a lot of other illnesses, which just sounds like an all around good thing

@chrisisgr8 @dx We may have driven one of the three major flu strains extinct. The article I read some time ago stressed that this was speculative, but wow.

@dx Certainly people would be in better shape from all that swimming!

@dx I remember when this came out, such a great comic

@dx yes, but the "owners" would not benefit. Or they benefit more by the status quo

@dx , I for one did as I said and didn't go back to the way I lived before.
My life is so much better for it.

@dx

The problem is ideology. A lot of people are convinced that 'the good life' really is jetting all over the world, luxury hotels, yachts, fancy cars and other material possessions (whereas in fact it lies in intangibles like family, security, relationships, community, aesthetics, the natural world).

Perhaps the most revealing descriptions of this mistake is the phrase 'retail therapy': ie. what people are looking for in consumerism is not really more and more useless stuff, but a salve for their damaged lives.

Still the best explanation of this damage I know is the marxist idea that capitalism inevitably strips out from life what makes it meaningful, by replacing real relationships between people, and the self-realisation of meaningful work, with empty commercial and wage transactions.

@dx The saddest part is that we need arguments related to climate change to convince many people that the way we treat our planet (our health) is not good.

@dx that’s all fine and nothing is stopping you moving to somewhere closer to your taste. It’s the imposition of these ideas and the banning of alternatives, which perhaps to your surprise many people may prefer, that I object to. Your idea of a utopia strikes me as closer to 1984. You do not know better than me what my preferences are and I object to you and people like you attempting to curb my freedoms.

@dx Me too. It's crazy that a handful of corporations (who have even roped in the government), have total control over preventing all this from happening.

@dx That's ignorance for you..Climate change isn't real so why do anything..Unlike drag queens who have been sent by the devil to infect our children with immorality...Or some other fucked up conspiracies..

@dx except those who currently hoard obscene wealth by supporting the status quo.

@dx sadly, most people are driven by the desire to move up the social ladder. Framing things as better for everyone. Might be useful for the altruists like you and I. But it doesn't convince the ladder climbers, and that's most people.

I think we need to figure out how to restate these benefits as more competitive improvements to juice that ladder climbing brain.

@dx You're assuming those in power, who already have (most of) those things, care more for society than maintaining their position, power, and money. Why lift up the unwashed masses? We can certainly work towards those goals but without backing and real change it's an uphill battle.

@thinkingoutloud There’s more of us than them. 🤷‍♀️ still not obvious to me that this is the way the world must be

Mild pessimism, hypercapitalism, disaster capitalism, doomsday capitalism

@dx

Yes, the necessary changes would be good for most people, and that's part of why the mega-rich fight them. For example, green energy can't really be monopolized the way oil or coal can be; you can't hoard sunlight. When your massive hereditary wealth is based on monopoly practices, that's a terrifying thought. Green energy threatens you with needing to WORK for a living, like some common laborer.

Mild pessimism, hypercapitalism, disaster capitalism, doomsday capitalism

@dx

Even worse, higher standards living are BAD for the mega-rich. Labor costs eat into their hoarded wealth. Labor is cheapest when workers are sick, scared, and desperately poor — so livable cities, clean water and air, and healthy children all mean a price hike on those labor costs.

That's why the mega-rich call the climate movement "socialism," by which they mean "anything that helps other people."

Mild pessimism, hypercapitalism, disaster capitalism, doomsday capitalism

@dx

Most of the current mega-rich were born rich. They do not understand there are problems they can't simply ignore, avoid, or buy their way out of. That's why they have those inane fantasies about living in underground bunkers or moving to Mars when our biosphere dies.

"Oh, sure, the filthy proles will die by the billion, but surely there will be an exception for me, a person of status."

@dx also much more tasty and nutrient dense foods which can immense caacading health benefits.

@dx The people who, at this point, still oppose the fight against climate change are libertarian ultracapitalist nihilists who are against all the things you enumerate. They don't want a better society, they just want more for themselves at the expense of everyone else.

@dx Yeah...but think of the poor rich people...